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Council meeting
#41
Derek Howie Wrote:
David G Congalton Wrote:I anticipate the question of whether all juniors would be required to take
compulsory membership in order to have games graded will be raised.

Again a frightening comment. I would suggest that whoever raises this has no idea about junior chess and the devastating impact that this would have at the grass roots level, which in turn would have an impact on those progressing into adult competitions and club and congress chess in 10-30 years.

Also is it only juniors who are being asked to take compulsory membership or adults as well?

Derek, the document relating to compulsory membership is available from the home page of the CS website. It suggests a £10 fee for juniors.
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#42
Derek Howie Wrote:
David Deary Wrote:Fundamentally, I believe this is a debate that CS needs to have along with the debate around compulsory membership.

Two totally different things and the fact that the HJD is talking about compusory membership is frightening. If this is something that you believe should be discussed then you should have detailed that prior to your election. It is something that I could never vote for. However that should not derail the subject of fees and should be deferred to a later date.

Derek, do not confuse me referring to the debate on compulsory membership as support for the proposal or the principle. I remain to be convinced of either.

Also, I believe it would be highly irregular for me to ignore the debate on compulsory membership now that the issue has been raised.

Derek Howie Wrote:The problem with your suggestion on the regional league being affiliated is that what happens if it isn't? It would be best to omit schools chess and similar where incurring any cost may be problematic and prohibitive.

This is exactly why I think the proposal should go to the Home Junior Board who will consult through the regionalised network to come up with a practical solution to many of these issues. One of the solutions could well be what you suggest above.

P.S. The smilies seem to be gone... :-'(
Growing old is compulsory, growing up is optional!
#43
David G Congalton Wrote:
Derek Howie Wrote:
David G Congalton Wrote:I anticipate the question of whether all juniors would be required to take
compulsory membership in order to have games graded will be raised.

Again a frightening comment. I would suggest that whoever raises this has no idea about junior chess and the devastating impact that this would have at the grass roots level, which in turn would have an impact on those progressing into adult competitions and club and congress chess in 10-30 years.

Also is it only juniors who are being asked to take compulsory membership or adults as well?

Derek, the document relating to compulsory membership is available from the home page of the CS website. It suggests a £10 fee for juniors.

Thanks David.

I see a number of juniors who start off trying out the game and it's a huge thrill for them to have their games graded and they are keen to see if they can get their grades increased. To insist on a £10 membership before they can get games graded would prevent many new kids from starting as trying out a competition to see if they like it suddenly changes from £5-£7 to £15-£17. To insist on this will take away huge amounts of the junior chess scene.

As for the adult side, as someone who has only played 3 graded games this year (one doesn't appear for some reason), I'd certainly resent paying £20 per game and that level of fees may end up driving me away from the game on a permanent basis. While that may appeal to some, it could also drive away many more valuable players than me particularly on the league side and while CS income may increase the numbers playing would fall. It's a difficult line to draw and certainly all possibilities should be explored but I'd need a lot of persuasion to convince me that the downsides don't outweigh the benefits.
#44
How would a non-compulsory scheme for juniors sound? All games are graded for free, but your grade will only be published if you are CS member. No compulsion, if you value your grade you can have one if you don't no problem. With some of the money from those £10 memberships (I would suggest charging more - but that is another debate) you pay one of the young Scottish players to be the editor of a junior chess magazine which will come out every two months featuring games from Scottish youngsters, puzzles etc. hopefully some photos.
There are faults/issues/problems with that approach, but I think these are all pretty small in terms of the potential overall benefits.
Matt
#45
We have that to an extent already, Matt. All games are graded but you only get access to the full website and your current live grade if you are a member (live grades are so much more important in junior chess!).

What you are suggesting is taking it one stage further, but not sure how it works for members playing against non-members. Part of a junior's joy is beating someone with a higher grade but how strong a player they are would not be known by either player.

However perhaps it's an area that could be explored further as I do support the current rule that only members have full access to the CS site and live grades.
#46
StevieHilton Wrote:First of all I wish the council meeting well on Sunday.

As someone who will not be present at the meeting, I still have a number of questions about matters affecting our association.

The idea of compulsory membership of the association is not an option. I intend to fight such an idea with every breath I have. They tried to introduce this in 1993 and it was soundly defeated then.

I have suggested this time and time again but it keeps getting ignored. I am suggesting that a professional fundraiser be employed on a commission basis by CS. This would allow our officials to concentrate on the work they were elected to do, rather than having to spend their time fundraising, whilst noble in itself, takes vital time from their remits.
I would urge CS and the membership to consider this proposal most urgently, especially now with the disappearance of the Government Grant


I won't be at the council meeting either.
Instead I will be at the Chess For Kicks Qualifier in Airdrie.

SJC have not formally discussed the various proposals. Any suggestion of a considered SJC response is incorrect.
Nor have CS discussed them - that happens on Sunday
And I suspect neither have the junior board discussed them.

SJC will wait for the publication of the minutes of Sunday's meeting

Nothing else that I need to say.
#47
David Deary Wrote:
Derek Howie Wrote:
David Deary Wrote:Fundamentally, I believe this is a debate that CS needs to have along with the debate around compulsory membership.

Two totally different things and the fact that the HJD is talking about compusory membership is frightening. If this is something that you believe should be discussed then you should have detailed that prior to your election. It is something that I could never vote for. However that should not derail the subject of fees and should be deferred to a later date.

Derek, do not confuse me referring to the debate on compulsory membership as support for the proposal or the principle. I remain to be convinced of either.

Also, I believe it would be highly irregular for me to ignore the debate on compulsory membership now that the issue has been raised.

Apologies David, although I do dispute that we need to have the debate on compulsory membership for juniors. I don't believe that we do. It should instantly be dismissed as a non-starter, in my opinion.
#48
I should add it is a discussion not a proposal or a motion. We are floating the idea. You are looking at a minimum of 18 months before it could be implemented.

I was looking at the ECF website to see what they do with juniors.

• BRONZE (Club and League Chess) £9
• SILVER (Domestic tournament chess) £13
• GOLD £22 (FIDE games)
• PLATINUM (With some addons) £60

Ouch!!!

If a junior is not a member it is a £4 fee per tournament.

Fancy doing that???
"How sad to see, what used to be, a model of decorum and tranquility become like any other sport, a battleground for rival ideologies to slug it out with glee"
#49
Andy Howie Wrote:I should add it is a discussion not a proposal or a motion. We are floating the idea. You are looking at a minimum of 18 months before it could be implemented.

I was looking at the ECF website to see what they do with juniors.

• BRONZE (Club and League Chess) £9
• SILVER (Domestic tournament chess) £13
• GOLD £22 (FIDE games)
• PLATINUM (With some addons) £60

Ouch!!!

If a junior is not a member it is a £4 fee per tournament.

Fancy doing that???

Sorry, being a bit dense here...........

What does this mean? That a junior who is a not a member of ECF pays an extra £4 when they enter an ECF tournament?
In life, unlike chess, the game continues after checkmate.........
#50
Any graded tournament.


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