Recognition for Chess in Scotland

[Hugh Brechin]

This is essentially the point Hugh is making. So does that make snooker or darts a sport?

I do not see darts as a sport yet I think archery is!

Yup. There are sizeable grey areas here - for what it's worth, my definition seems to suggest that snooker and darts are sports, and I'm inclined to argue that they are, but I know a lot of people disagree. I've said before that words like 'sport' are defined in different ways in the minds of different people, as well as varying in definition between different cultures and languages, so there's scope for debate there.

I think things are simpler when it comes to chess. As has been stated earlier in this thread, whatever some of us might argue, chess simply isn't perceived as a sport by the average man on a Scottish street. We're talking about how best to achieve the level of funding that we believe the pursuit deserves, and I don't think that would be best served by straining every sinew to ensure that we're in direct competition with football, athletics and cycling for a dwindling supply of funding allocated by former Olympic athletes. Again, I'm repeating myself from the old board here, but to emphasise the aspects of chess which it shares with sports - which do exist - undermines what I find authentically brilliant about the game, which is its status as a pure mental contest. I think there's much more future in making that case.

[Mike Scott]

Steve,
Pushing pawns does not require any physical skill and sure one is tired after a tough game but mostly that is a mental tiredness. It is not the same as the tiredness one gets after running a marathon or swimming a 1500m.

Being physically fit will help you in chess because of the general benefits it brings but it is not the essential requirement that it is in (some) sports.

One of the great advantages chess has is the ability of physically impaired to take part on equal terms (though clearly impaired sight is a disadvantage).

Put another way being bigger, faster or stronger, or having good eye hand co-ordination gives you no advantage in chess.

[Derek Howie]

Without turning this into a political debate, I have spoken to ministers about this. The main issue is that it would really need to change in the whole of the UK. Depending how the vote goes in 2014 it may be easier for us to be recognised as a sport as it could be a single government we would have to deal with.

Another pro-independence post from a CS director

Actually Derek, no, it is a statement of fact. Let me express this a different way, are we better to push it now and fight the battle in two places at once, or wait until 2014 and see what happens there where we could be in a position of just having to fight a single battle.

Andy, I fail to see how it is a statement of fact when there are no definites involved. You say it may be easier. So it therefore may be harder?

It's obviously commendable that you have spoken to ministers, but I doubt that they can give any assurances post-independence given they have no idea what the political landscape will be, and even their own party are changing their stand on key issues such as Nato.

It seems that there is currently one government that makes the decision on this at the moment so there's not a huge amount that would be changed.

[StevieHilton]

Mike,
A tired mind is just as much an impediment to playing good chess as a tired body. I would disagree with your point about it as being essential as in other sports. Look at world championship matches and the amount of physical preparation undertaken by the players for matches.

"One of the great advantages chess has is the ability of physically impaired to take part on equal terms (though clearly impaired sight is a disadvantage)."
I would agree with this point Mike The IBCA team at recent olympiad came ahead of the likes of Norway and Scotland, which was an outstanding achievement for my organisation. Sure, blind/visually impaired players are at a disadvantage, but we are overcoming that handicap, by sheer guts and determination.

"Put another way being bigger, faster or stronger, or having good eye hand co-ordination gives you no advantage in chess."
Again I can agree with this , but you know full well that this is only one part of the equation when it comes to chess, knowledge and understanding are most important as well

[Adam Bremner]

When Hugh mentions darts and snooker, it is interesting that those two activities/sports decided to try and make themselves more appealing as a product, and this was done mainly through the work of Barry Hearn. One of the things that both have been given is player entrances, giving them all walk on music and a bit of drama. Am I the only one who would love to see this at a congress? Forget live boards; a bit of pyro is where its at.

[Andrew McHarg]

lol Adam - I like that idea. Could also call out the Congress titles the player holds, as well as their winning record when they take their seat; all followed - of course - by a: "let's get ready to rumble!!!".

Steve, the fifth hour of playing Chess doesn't make me any more physically tired than the first hour did. I am mentally more tired by the fifth hour, but that's a mental stamina issue rather than a physical stamina one. There is almost no physical element with being good at Chess. If there was then all the best Chess players would be slim and physically very fit, which - ironically - seems to be the opposite of true. I'm not suggesting that being physically fit wouldn't help, it probably would - but not nearly as much as being well practised at sitting and concentrating for six hours would.

So anyone can clasify Chess as a sport all they like; but - as Hugh suggested - it doesn't make the average guy on the street see it that way, and for perfectly obvious reasons. When I tell people I play Chess, the first thing they say is not: "ooh you must be fit".

[StevieHilton]

Andrew you are kidding yourself when you say " Steve, the fifth hour of playing Chess doesn't make me any more physically tired than the first hour did. I am mentally more tired by the fifth hour, but that's a mental stamina issue rather than a physical stamina one."
They are both part of the equation

[Andrew McHarg]

Andrew you are kidding yourself when you say " Steve, the fifth hour of playing Chess doesn't make me any more physically tired than the first hour did. I am mentally more tired by the fifth hour, but that's a mental stamina issue rather than a physical stamina one."
They are both part of the equation

I disagree. I could get up after a six hour game of Chess and then run a half marathon. I couldn't - however - play another six hour game of Chess (at least not well). If requiring mental stamina but not physical stamina qualifies Chess as a sport, then almost everything which requires you to concentrate for more than half an hour or so could be a sport. What a sporty country we are! =D

[David Deary]

I disagree. I could get up after a six hour game of Chess and then run a half marathon. I couldn't - however - play another six hour game of Chess (at least not well).

I doubt I'd be able to run a half marathon without the six hour chess game before it.
I reckon we should put your claim to the test Mr McHarg. ;P

[Andrew McHarg]

I disagree. I could get up after a six hour game of Chess and then run a half marathon. I couldn't - however - play another six hour game of Chess (at least not well).

I doubt I'd be able to run a half marathon without the six hour chess game before it.
I reckon we should put your claim to the test Mr McHarg. ;P

Hmm Steve might be right; you can't run and you're rubbish at Chess - I'm beginning to see a correlation! :U

Actually I do a lot more running than I do playing Chess. My combined run/cycle per week amounts to more than 150km. ;P