17-07-2013, 05:43 PM
You know I rabbit on all the time about what computers show you and what is hidden
because they do not deem it worthy to show or even consider.
And how often it is these very human lines that it tucks away that are instructive
regarding how humans think.
When we get them thinking cheapo and counter cheapo, anticipating bad but human type moves
then we will have a machine that will be of some good.
(maybe display in bright red what it considers is a human sneaky pete move with it's fun analysis)
Basically a machine that spots and invents traps and instead of this 1.56 nonsense.
it can display them using coloured skulls.
Yellow - a blitz/skittles try.
Green - Go for it if you feel Lucky
Blue - Plausible, an average human will blunder in the calculation.
Red - 99% chance the human will miss it.
Or something like that.
You cannot win unless an opponent blunders.
Currently when these things look at positions they are looking for the best move from each side.
It is not looking at what possible tricks an opponent may play v you even if it carries a red skull rating.
An example from a recent 5/0 on Gameknot where I go by the name of Kid Zebra (thank you J.Rowson.)
I'm White and after these blitz'd out opening moves. (from memory but the critical position is coorect.)
[pgn]1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 d6 3. Bb5+ Bd7 4. Qe2 a6 5. Bxd7+ Nxd7 6. O-O Ngf6 7. c4 e6
8. Rd1 Be7 9. d4 O-O 10. e5 Ne8 11. exd6 Bxd6 12. dxc5 Bxc5[/pgn]*
we reach here:
[pos]r2qnrk1/1p1n1ppp/p3p3/2b5/2P5/5N2/PP2QPPP/RNBR2K1 w - - 0 13[/pos]
And I have a quick think. 13.Ng5
[pos]r2qnrk1/1p1n1ppp/p3p3/2b3N1/2P5/8/PP2QPPP/RNBR2K1 b - - 0 13[/pos]
That is Chandler in full cheapo blitz mode. (Infact knowing me I'd most likely play it anywhere.)
Threat Qd3 hitting h7 and the pinned Knight (the source of the idea) on d7.
Don't go any further, what would you as Black play here. Have a wee think.
I bet you 13.Ng5 won't be spat out by any computer and I'm 100% sure Black's reply....
(answer coming....)
13...Bb4!@
[pos]r2qnrk1/1p1n1ppp/p3p3/6N1/1bP5/8/PP2QPPP/RNBR2K1 w - - 0 14[/pos]
Won't be either.
(the !@ symbol means it's a beautiful bad move...Lots of players lose to beautiful bad moves)
What a wonderful human move played after about 30 seconds thought.
It's a counter cheapo, a human v human move. Mr Fox meets Mr Crafty.
A computer would not go nowhere this position and it is these ideas that these things
cannot and do not show.
OK it's a crude example but I wonder how many complicated and wonderful variations which though
unsound and would tax even the best players to find a refuatation with a clock ticking these things
have tucked away.
[pos]r2qnrk1/1p1n1ppp/p3p3/6N1/1bP5/8/PP2QPPP/RNBR2K1 w - - 0 14[/pos]
White can win a pawn, chop the Queens and end up with a Rook on the 7th. End Kid Zebra's of analysis.
So the game continues....(use the wee arrows things to move the bits.)
[pgn][FEN "r2qnrk1/1p1n1ppp/p3p3/6N1/1bP5/8/PP2QPPP/RNBR2K1 w - - 0 14"]
14. Qd3 Nef6 {I'd like to think if this was a real game I'd stop mid-combo and play the counter-counter cheapo 15.a3 here which ruins Black wee scam.} 15. Nxh7 Nxh7 16. Qxd7 {And the moment I played this I went 'booger' I've been done!} 16... Qxd7 17. Rxd7 Rfd8[/pgn]
[pos]r2r2k1/1p1R1ppn/p3p3/8/1bP5/8/PP3PPP/RNB3K1 w - - 0 18[/pos]
Three choices.
18.Rxd8 Rxd8 and thanks to my weak back rank and his 13...Bb4 (see the idea now) I lose a piece.
18.Rd2 (best) and I drop the exchange.
18 Resigns, the chosen option.
You don't play on the exchange down trying to win on time, that is cry baby win at all costs chess.
Just let it go. You won't die.
It's not all that often I get done like that. Usually I lose because I over sac or just play bad.
So that is what it feels like to be cheaped. It's not too bad, why do you guys make such fuss over it?
All we need is one of you chaps with the latest toy to verify that my Ng5 and his Bb4 are not
in the computers hit parade and show up in the top 3 (or top 5.....top 10.....top 20?)
And then give me tel number of the the Fritz HQ so I can tell them were they are going wrong.
because they do not deem it worthy to show or even consider.
And how often it is these very human lines that it tucks away that are instructive
regarding how humans think.
When we get them thinking cheapo and counter cheapo, anticipating bad but human type moves
then we will have a machine that will be of some good.
(maybe display in bright red what it considers is a human sneaky pete move with it's fun analysis)
Basically a machine that spots and invents traps and instead of this 1.56 nonsense.
it can display them using coloured skulls.
Yellow - a blitz/skittles try.
Green - Go for it if you feel Lucky
Blue - Plausible, an average human will blunder in the calculation.
Red - 99% chance the human will miss it.
Or something like that.
You cannot win unless an opponent blunders.
Currently when these things look at positions they are looking for the best move from each side.
It is not looking at what possible tricks an opponent may play v you even if it carries a red skull rating.
An example from a recent 5/0 on Gameknot where I go by the name of Kid Zebra (thank you J.Rowson.)
I'm White and after these blitz'd out opening moves. (from memory but the critical position is coorect.)
[pgn]1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 d6 3. Bb5+ Bd7 4. Qe2 a6 5. Bxd7+ Nxd7 6. O-O Ngf6 7. c4 e6
8. Rd1 Be7 9. d4 O-O 10. e5 Ne8 11. exd6 Bxd6 12. dxc5 Bxc5[/pgn]*
we reach here:
[pos]r2qnrk1/1p1n1ppp/p3p3/2b5/2P5/5N2/PP2QPPP/RNBR2K1 w - - 0 13[/pos]
And I have a quick think. 13.Ng5
[pos]r2qnrk1/1p1n1ppp/p3p3/2b3N1/2P5/8/PP2QPPP/RNBR2K1 b - - 0 13[/pos]
That is Chandler in full cheapo blitz mode. (Infact knowing me I'd most likely play it anywhere.)
Threat Qd3 hitting h7 and the pinned Knight (the source of the idea) on d7.
Don't go any further, what would you as Black play here. Have a wee think.
I bet you 13.Ng5 won't be spat out by any computer and I'm 100% sure Black's reply....
(answer coming....)
13...Bb4!@
[pos]r2qnrk1/1p1n1ppp/p3p3/6N1/1bP5/8/PP2QPPP/RNBR2K1 w - - 0 14[/pos]
Won't be either.
(the !@ symbol means it's a beautiful bad move...Lots of players lose to beautiful bad moves)
What a wonderful human move played after about 30 seconds thought.
It's a counter cheapo, a human v human move. Mr Fox meets Mr Crafty.
A computer would not go nowhere this position and it is these ideas that these things
cannot and do not show.
OK it's a crude example but I wonder how many complicated and wonderful variations which though
unsound and would tax even the best players to find a refuatation with a clock ticking these things
have tucked away.
[pos]r2qnrk1/1p1n1ppp/p3p3/6N1/1bP5/8/PP2QPPP/RNBR2K1 w - - 0 14[/pos]
White can win a pawn, chop the Queens and end up with a Rook on the 7th. End Kid Zebra's of analysis.
So the game continues....(use the wee arrows things to move the bits.)
[pgn][FEN "r2qnrk1/1p1n1ppp/p3p3/6N1/1bP5/8/PP2QPPP/RNBR2K1 w - - 0 14"]
14. Qd3 Nef6 {I'd like to think if this was a real game I'd stop mid-combo and play the counter-counter cheapo 15.a3 here which ruins Black wee scam.} 15. Nxh7 Nxh7 16. Qxd7 {And the moment I played this I went 'booger' I've been done!} 16... Qxd7 17. Rxd7 Rfd8[/pgn]
[pos]r2r2k1/1p1R1ppn/p3p3/8/1bP5/8/PP3PPP/RNB3K1 w - - 0 18[/pos]
Three choices.
18.Rxd8 Rxd8 and thanks to my weak back rank and his 13...Bb4 (see the idea now) I lose a piece.
18.Rd2 (best) and I drop the exchange.
18 Resigns, the chosen option.
You don't play on the exchange down trying to win on time, that is cry baby win at all costs chess.
Just let it go. You won't die.
It's not all that often I get done like that. Usually I lose because I over sac or just play bad.
So that is what it feels like to be cheaped. It's not too bad, why do you guys make such fuss over it?
All we need is one of you chaps with the latest toy to verify that my Ng5 and his Bb4 are not
in the computers hit parade and show up in the top 3 (or top 5.....top 10.....top 20?)
And then give me tel number of the the Fritz HQ so I can tell them were they are going wrong.