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British Universities 2013 - Jonathan Edwards - 09-02-2013

I would just like to thank the individual who has allowed Edinburgh University to defend the BUCA title this year by donating the entry fee... It's really appreciated. The event takes place next weekend (16th-17th).

The team we're sending is: Boris Mitrovic, Gabriel Petesch, Clément Sreeves, Jonathan Edwards, Hamish Olson. Each team member will play four out of the five rounds.

On another note... I was wondering people's opinions on us all being forced to become ECF members in order to participate in the event. We almost boycotted the event on the basis that in order for it to be ECF rated we each have to pay £12 (so £60 for the team). Well, we don't want it ECF rated! British Universities??? More like English Universities.


Re: British Universities 2013 - Alex McFarlane - 09-02-2013

Hi Jonathan,

Insist that as it is a British event it should also be sent to Scotland and Wales for grading and deduct the Scottish figure from your own costs.

More seriously, the cost of ECF grading should be £2 per game to non-members or have the event classed as a Swiss and it is £6 in total per player.

I'm sure the ECF Home Director could persuade the Board to waive the fee. Since this is also the organiser it shouldn't be too difficult for him to persuade himself!


Re: British Universities 2013 - Jonathan Edwards - 09-02-2013

Hi Alex,

We tried to persuade him otherwise, but he insisted that we have to pay the £12 charge per player. Although you actually make a good point that it's meant to be £2 per game so should in fact be £48 (I think) and not £60.


Re: British Universities 2013 - andyburnett - 09-02-2013

Good luck with the tournament guys Smile That's a very strong team you have - top seeds perchance?

Pity about the membership nonsense. Sad I would complain also to the Dean of Edinburgh University about the funding issue and/or make it public knowledge that our 'top' university doesn't recognise the worth of our most cerebral of games!


Re: British Universities 2013 - Adam Bremner - 09-02-2013

As secretary of the club, I was present at the vote on this last year. Basically at the AGM, the proposal was made that did people want it ECF rated or not, and if so that membership would be compulsory. Now, when you are the only Scottish Uni there, 1 v 17 is hardly going to carry any weight, and the vote went through, despite my objection. Yes, the event can be Scottish rated (in fact last year I had to submit the data to Dougie myself), but that hardly seems the point. Being FORCED to join a federation to play an event is ridiculous. The game fee is stupid enough as it is, but even that is more reasonable. Why should we have to find money from somewhere to join an organisation that none of us agree with, nor want any association to? Could you imagine if roles were switched and ECF members were forced to join CS to play up here? All hell would break loose.

As Jonny says, we were very tempted to not enter a team this year, but in the end, turning up and winning is a much better course of action than throwing the toys out of the pram.

andyburnett Wrote:I would complain also to the Dean of Edinburgh University about the funding issue and/or make it public knowledge that our 'top' university doesn't recognise the worth of our most cerebral of games!

He knows. Getting funding from the Uni is like getting blood from a stone.


Re: British Universities 2013 - Alex McFarlane - 09-02-2013

Hi Adam,

I meant that the whole event should be graded - just as meaningless as having your games ECF graded but at least it is fair and equitable.

If one of your non-Scottish players is a member of CS then a racial discrimination case is possible in that he is being forced to join the 'wrong' national association.
If there are any female players then a sex discrimination case should not be ruled out. It is amazing just how many unbelieveable things can be covered by this. The CAA threatened to take such action against the ECF when it was treating arbiters and coaches differently. The then CEO of the ECF checked the situation and backed down.

Obviously an English player gets more benefit from ECF membership than you will. This inequality leaves them open.

I have no problem with membership of a national association being insisted on. It is the specification of which one that causes the problem.


Re: British Universities 2013 - Andy Howie - 09-02-2013

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.ecforum.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5191&start=30">http://www.ecforum.org.uk/viewtopic.php ... 1&start=30</a><!-- m --> Thread on the ECForum on this.

As stated I have indeed contacted both Alex H and the ECF President. I thought it was similar to up here in that an event such of that would fall under the ECF, but found that that was not the case.

Waiting to hear back from Roger and will take it from there.

Quote:I have no problem with membership of a national association being insisted on. It is the specification of which one that causes the problem.
I can't disagree with that!


Re: British Universities 2013 - Adam Bremner - 10-02-2013

Alex McFarlane Wrote:I have no problem with membership of a national association being insisted on. It is the specification of which one that causes the problem.

Hi Alex,

Yes, that is what I was meaning, but perhaps didn't make clear.

Also Andy,

I had assumed it was an ECF event too, so even more weird to find out that it isn't.

I was fairly tempted to post on the ecf thread on this, but thinking about it again, I don't really want to get into an argument with some of the people on there, so I will clarify some things here instead.

The idea of compulsory membership to the ECF was given by Alex H, on the basis that the game fee works out as £10 per player, and membership £12, so they might as well insist on the membership for the sake of £2. The cost of this was explained by Alex H. What I failed to consider, and failed to be raised, is when you take along a reserve the game fee stays the same, but the membership fee increases. I was also unhappy at the time about essentially forcing our team to pay up membership to the ecf, despite being members of our own federations. Immediately it felt like our team was subsidising the other teams to get it ecf rated. Perhaps I could have been more active with my views, but on a Sunday morning with no time to really think through the proposal, and with other issues that I had to bring up points on, I cast my vote against and nothing more.

Looking again at this, I am disappointed that I didn't raise more of an objection at the time. However, Alex H has done a good job in getting BUCA back up and running, and getting the competitions organised, and I really believe the motion was put forward without any money grabbing intentions for the ecf. I am sure that this will be raised at the BUCA AGM this year, and I don't see any potential reason why dropping this membership condition would be rejected, assuming we pay the game fee (which I guess is another argument all together!) In the mean time, there seems to be no other option but to sign up 5 new ecf members if as a club we want to defend our title.

Finally, I would like to join Jonny in thanking the person who donated the entry fee to us. As a club, and not just the members going, we are really grateful for it.


Re: British Universities 2013 - Adam Bremner - 16-02-2013

Results of day 1:

Edinburgh 4- LSE2 0
Edinburgh 2- Bristol 2
Edinburgh 3- York1 1

Not a bad day for the team, putting themselves in position for a shot tomorrow, R4 will be against LSE1, and Edinburgh will be big favourites for that. On the top boards will be Imperial v Warwick1, the only 2 teams on 3/3. Assuming that Edinburgh win in the morning, the match in the afternoon will be for the title against the winner of that tie. Good luck guys!


Re: British Universities 2013 - robin moore - 16-02-2013

Adam,

Have you got a link to the results please?

Robin.