24-04-2016, 06:21 PM
Money isn't the problem, it's time. Time does equal money the well known saying goes but I don't think CS wants to be paying people 5x their hourly salary x 8 players.
24-04-2016, 06:21 PM
24-04-2016, 06:23 PM
Jonathan Livingstone Wrote:Just putting an idea out there, but is a CS travel subsidy payment for clubs/teams who have to travel more than X miles from their club venue location a workable solution?
we'll see if we can get sponsorship, perhaps the remote clubs can look into this as well. Possibly money saved from hiring a venue for previous rounds can be used. There's certainly a few challenges here
24-04-2016, 06:35 PM
hamish olson Wrote:Money isn't the problem, it's time. Time does equal money the well known saying goes but I don't think CS wants to be paying people 5x their hourly salary x 8 players.
no way then CS would have to pay for arbiters volunteers etc and Im sure CS wouldnt want to pay my hourly fee LOL. We all want to move forward on this Clubs seem to go to the SNCL Ok over four weekends and the SNCL seems to be thriving so we could all learn lessons from the SNCL team, Perhaps perhaps perhaps'....
Time is an issue but it's still a national championship . The good news for you Hamish is that if the sponsorship comes off it will be a national sponsorship which lincludes Perth, Dundee, Aberdeen etc, but I dont want to get ahead of myself just yet
24-04-2016, 06:41 PM
agreed, I was not suggesting it I was pointing out that it was impractical!
24-04-2016, 06:45 PM
Ianbrownlee Wrote:The big issue then would be how to avoid the 4NCL. This is a real issue. Perhaps instead of playing in the 23rd of January, change it to be played BY the 23rd of January. Indeed one match was played the week before without issue.
Again the POLY issue was caused by them not realising the potenital clash on the 23rd combined with a change of captains. The draw was made at the Dundee congress so there was no reason the game could have been played in December or Early January had POLY recognised the issue. I cannot legislate for the 4NCL anyway because our draw was listed first
Agree giving some flexibility would be nice. We were the match played the week before because it suited us and Dragons better. Captains agreed, no problems. The only issue comes when captains don't agree, and that is when a fixed date would have to be used. The Poly issue this year is theirs, again I'm just saying for next season it would be appreciated. If it can't be done, fine. Scottish events obviously take priority. Also, pretty sure 4NCL is listed first? I can give you the 4NCL weekends for next season now:
Div 1/2 Regional 18/11/2016
Div 1/2 Regional 13/01/2017
Div 1/2 Regional 10/02/2017
Div 1/2 Regional 17/03/2017
Div 1/2 Regional 28/04/2017
Jonathan Livingstone Wrote:Just putting an idea out there, but is a CS travel subsidy payment for clubs/teams who have to travel more than X miles from their club venue location a workable solution?
It really is the time. 2.5hr drive then straight into a match, then 2.5hr drive home. We play almost every match in Dundee, and it is roughly an hour for every team (including us) to get there. Imagine Inverness wanting to play!
Ianbrownlee Wrote:Clubs seem to go to the SNCL Ok over four weekends
You really need to see some of our travel arrangements. Last season I was putting players up in my flat in Edinburgh then driving them back the next day to make it work!
24-04-2016, 07:04 PM
Adam Bremner Wrote:Agree giving some flexibility would be nice. We were the match played the week before because it suited us and Dragons better. Captains agreed, no problems. The only issue comes when captains don't agree, and that is when a fixed date would have to be used. The Poly issue this year is theirs, again I'm just saying for next season it would be appreciated. If it can't be done, fine. Scottish events obviously take priority. Also, pretty sure 4NCL is listed first? I can give you the 4NCL weekends for next season now:Thanks Adam I'll bear this in mind when the draw is made its interesting to note that the division 1/2 is on the same weekend and at least 1 week earlier in each month so it could be doable assuming there is no clash with any Scottish event. I cant promise it though because another nameless individual gave such a commitment in the tournaments in a previous year which ultimately could POLY out as the nameless individual didnt did not inform CS about this commitment for future events.
Div 1/2 Regional 18/11/2016
Div 1/2 Regional 13/01/2017
Div 1/2 Regional 10/02/2017
Div 1/2 Regional 17/03/2017
Div 1/2 Regional 28/04/2017
24-04-2016, 07:17 PM
I accept that we are going to do more travelling than those in better locations and that the central venue for finals day will not be close. But it would be a major disappointment to me if the Richardson moved to a central venue that was 2+ hours drive from Aberdeen. It really has been a pleasure to be able to play matches in Dundee.
Is there really evidence that the hassle of booking venues is the problem here? Have we surveyed the clubs on this?
Is there really evidence that the hassle of booking venues is the problem here? Have we surveyed the clubs on this?
24-04-2016, 08:03 PM
Robert - the former Home Events Director, Keith did invite clubs to feedback a season or two ago, but if I recall correctly, the response was poor.
My thoughts admittedly are based on the perspective of my own young club (just 6yrs old), which is quite different in many ways to the young average player age, dynamic club of yours. The BA 'just get on with it' attitude is very admirable and the team spirit and so on is evident, even just reading Adam's last post you can see it coming through. The thing is, I just don't see there is many clubs in the mould of BA out there, and the majority have a completely different culture, and are therefore excluded from the Spens/Rich because of the current format.
From my clubs perspective, we tried the Spens out 2013/14 season. Chess wise it was great, and also found the clubs we played to be friendly. What was a bit of a hassle was the date uncertainty, there was some chopping and changing in one round, and 2 away matches was a lot for us and put players off (our players are mainly parents of young kids and older players). I also found as team captain, there was a fair bit of organising to be done in negotiating mid-way points and so on and unexpected costs.
We have since considered re-entering the Spens, and also the Richardsons, but the current venue format simply does not work for us for either to be viable. We are slowly entering more competitions, we have gone from 1 to 3 now, and the SNCL for obvious reasons is ticking lots of boxes for our club and is all but a certainty to be our 4th competition we play in next season.
It would be fantastic if we could add the Spens or Richardsons as one of our competitions we will compete in next season, but it simply needs change and modernisation for that to happen...
My thoughts admittedly are based on the perspective of my own young club (just 6yrs old), which is quite different in many ways to the young average player age, dynamic club of yours. The BA 'just get on with it' attitude is very admirable and the team spirit and so on is evident, even just reading Adam's last post you can see it coming through. The thing is, I just don't see there is many clubs in the mould of BA out there, and the majority have a completely different culture, and are therefore excluded from the Spens/Rich because of the current format.
From my clubs perspective, we tried the Spens out 2013/14 season. Chess wise it was great, and also found the clubs we played to be friendly. What was a bit of a hassle was the date uncertainty, there was some chopping and changing in one round, and 2 away matches was a lot for us and put players off (our players are mainly parents of young kids and older players). I also found as team captain, there was a fair bit of organising to be done in negotiating mid-way points and so on and unexpected costs.
We have since considered re-entering the Spens, and also the Richardsons, but the current venue format simply does not work for us for either to be viable. We are slowly entering more competitions, we have gone from 1 to 3 now, and the SNCL for obvious reasons is ticking lots of boxes for our club and is all but a certainty to be our 4th competition we play in next season.
It would be fantastic if we could add the Spens or Richardsons as one of our competitions we will compete in next season, but it simply needs change and modernisation for that to happen...
24-04-2016, 09:59 PM
As a team captain for a Richardson team, the greatest admin burden is trying to get 8 players tied down in time to commit to a weekend. If I have 2 or 3 out of our squad away on weekend tournaments, then the this task is a little harder to manage. I did have a little difficultly last year in arranging a match which coincided with my house move, but the opposition captain was first class in agreeing to move the match to the next weekend. You know who you are and thanks again for that.
I cannot understand the issue with weekends, since a lot of the players and potential players play in weekend tournaments which span Friday nights, most of Saturday and most of Sunday with the odd bye thrown in. The issue is more likely to be the sourcing of enough like minded individuals in the club to make this commitment on a given weekend/weekends. As for dates, they are published months in advance on the Chess Scotland website and I advise my pool of players up front of the various dates to keep free in their diary. This should rule out any "last minute" clashes, especially of a chess nature. Of the missing higher graded players, how can you find ways of encouraging them to play in this tournament?
As for venues, we played both matches this season in Dundee at Alison's Bar - easy to drive to, easy to park at, free hall hire, free food and free coffee. All they asked for is if you could buy the odd drink at the bar in return. Their hall could easily accommodate 2 matches and even the finals themselves. Perhaps more of these locations should be sourced in the central belt to ease the burden of finding a match venue.
As someone who drives 1 hour plus each way to play matches in the Edinburgh Premier League at night after a full days work, I fully appreciate Bon Accord's travel issue.
I cannot understand the issue with weekends, since a lot of the players and potential players play in weekend tournaments which span Friday nights, most of Saturday and most of Sunday with the odd bye thrown in. The issue is more likely to be the sourcing of enough like minded individuals in the club to make this commitment on a given weekend/weekends. As for dates, they are published months in advance on the Chess Scotland website and I advise my pool of players up front of the various dates to keep free in their diary. This should rule out any "last minute" clashes, especially of a chess nature. Of the missing higher graded players, how can you find ways of encouraging them to play in this tournament?
As for venues, we played both matches this season in Dundee at Alison's Bar - easy to drive to, easy to park at, free hall hire, free food and free coffee. All they asked for is if you could buy the odd drink at the bar in return. Their hall could easily accommodate 2 matches and even the finals themselves. Perhaps more of these locations should be sourced in the central belt to ease the burden of finding a match venue.
As someone who drives 1 hour plus each way to play matches in the Edinburgh Premier League at night after a full days work, I fully appreciate Bon Accord's travel issue.
25-04-2016, 01:29 PM
I have looked through the grading records and extracted the numbers for team entries for past seasons:
RICH, SPENS, TOTAL, [relevant notes]
2015/16, 8, 6, 14, * Rich had one default.
2014/15, 8, 8, 16,
2013/14, 10, 8, 18, * Rich had some defaulted matches, Spens had one club enter 2 teams.
2012/13, 9, 9, 18, * Spens had some defaulted matches and one club entered 2 teams.
2011/12, 10, 9, 19,
2010/11, 18 COMBINED, 18, * Two clubs both entered 2 teams.
2009/10, 15 COMBINED, 15, * One club entered 2 teams.
2008/09, 14 COMBINED, 14, * One club entered 2 teams.
(sorry but have displayed above as best as can on here)
I don't have the stats for the SNCL, but do we really need them? One format and system has proven to work and attract Club entries from across the nation. One simply hasn't and is stifling progress and in turn the competitions, while proving to not be inclusive or welcoming to all clubs (the numbers say so).
Seems a simple choice? Make the obvious change to accommodate more teams, or struggle away as is.
RICH, SPENS, TOTAL, [relevant notes]
2015/16, 8, 6, 14, * Rich had one default.
2014/15, 8, 8, 16,
2013/14, 10, 8, 18, * Rich had some defaulted matches, Spens had one club enter 2 teams.
2012/13, 9, 9, 18, * Spens had some defaulted matches and one club entered 2 teams.
2011/12, 10, 9, 19,
2010/11, 18 COMBINED, 18, * Two clubs both entered 2 teams.
2009/10, 15 COMBINED, 15, * One club entered 2 teams.
2008/09, 14 COMBINED, 14, * One club entered 2 teams.
(sorry but have displayed above as best as can on here)
I don't have the stats for the SNCL, but do we really need them? One format and system has proven to work and attract Club entries from across the nation. One simply hasn't and is stifling progress and in turn the competitions, while proving to not be inclusive or welcoming to all clubs (the numbers say so).
Seems a simple choice? Make the obvious change to accommodate more teams, or struggle away as is.