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May I suggest that in the proposed new constitution, section 16.2 should read...

To be eligible to represent Scotland in any international competition, a person must fulfil the eligibility requirements in section 16.1 and be :

Thanks Robin - that would at least make the constitution consistent with the explanatory advice including the grandparent clause.

it’s really for the CWP to amend either the proposal of the explanation. The confusion is an impediment to anyone submitting an amendment, for which time is getting short.

Alistair White’s response suggest that it’s the explanation that may be wrong and that the controversial grandparent Scottish connection may not even be needed and that the only requirements for eligibility for international selection will be the ones set by FIDE.

Whatever the CWP intends, at present the constitutional proposal holds sway over the (currently wrong) explanation and there will not even be a need for a foreign GM with a bit of cash to spare and who fancies playing some top level chess for Scotland to check out their grandparents.

Proposed Amendment to Section 16 (elibibility)

Following the recent discussions on the forum regarding the constitution, I am looking for a seconder for the below amendment to section 16 on eligibility.

Please note that the purpose of this proposed amendment is not that my particular view on the ‘grandparent clause’ is adopted, but rather that the ‘grandparent issue’ is actually discussed and determined by the CS membership.

A secondary purpose is clarification - as presently the notes to section 16 and the actual proposed constitution say quite different things.

This is what the amendment would do:

1) Remove the ‘grandfather born in Scotland’ criterion and leave as ‘parent born in Scotland’

2) Make the requirements for Scottish Championship eligibility and international selection for Scotland the same. This may be what was actually intended by the CWP, as the notes indeed claim albeit wrongly.

This would be the effect on section 16, with the changes to 16.1.1 and 16.2 in square brackets and in bold:

16.Eligibility
16.1. To be eligible to compete for any Scottish individual national championship title (including open to all, gender or age-related championship tournaments) a person must be a member of Chess Scotland and meet at least one of the following requirements:
16.1.1. born in Scotland, or have at least one parent [DELETE: the existing ‘or grandparent’] born in Scotland, or
16.1.2. permanently resident in Scotland for at least two years immediately prior to the commencement of the competition, or
16.1.3. currently registered as Scottish (‘SCO’) with the World Chess Federation (‘FIDE’).
In the case of Juniors aged 18 and under, the residence qualification period as at
16.1.2 above shall be reduced to one year immediately prior to the commencement of the competition.

16.2. To be eligible to represent Scotland in any international competition , a person must [ADD: fulfil the eligibility requirements in section 16.1, and] be:
16.2.1. a member of Chess Scotland currently registered as Scottish (‘SCO’) with the World Chess Federation (‘FIDE’), and
16.2.2. Able to satisfy any other criteria (including age and rating limits) set by the organisers of the tournament concerned.
Selection of individuals and/or teams who will represent Scotland in international competition is the sole responsibility of the appropriate board of selectors. Qualification according to the above criteria is no guarantee of being considered for selection. <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.chessscotland.com/Files/2015/Constitution2015.pdf">http://www.chessscotland.com/Files/2015 ... on2015.pdf</a><!-- m -->

Regards
Walter

I would be happy to second this amendment Walter,

Cheers,
Andy

Thanks Andy (also, hat-tip to Robin for 2nd part)

How about this, removing the preamble:

Amendment to Section 16 (eligibility)

Section 16 of the present constitution document is shown below, with the two proposed changes in square brackets and in bold type.

16.Eligibility
16.1. To be eligible to compete for any Scottish individual national championship title (including open to all, gender or age-related championship tournaments) a person must be a member of Chess Scotland and meet at least one of the following requirements:
16.1.1. born in Scotland, or have at least one parent or grandparent [Proposed change: delete the ‘or grandparent’] born in Scotland, or
16.1.2. permanently resident in Scotland for at least two years immediately prior to the commencement of the competition, or
16.1.3. currently registered as Scottish (‘SCO’) with the World Chess Federation (‘FIDE’).

In the case of Juniors aged 18 and under, the residence qualification period as at 16.1.2 above shall be reduced to one year immediately prior to the commencement of the competition.

16.2. To be eligible to represent Scotland in any international competition , a person must [Proposed change: add the following: ‘fulfil the eligibility requirements in section 16.1, and’] be:
16.2.1. a member of Chess Scotland currently registered as Scottish (‘SCO’) with the World Chess Federation (‘FIDE’), and
16.2.2. Able to satisfy any other criteria (including age and rating limits) set by the organisers of the tournament concerned.
Selection of individuals and/or teams who will represent Scotland in international competition is the sole responsibility of the appropriate board of selectors. Qualification according to the above criteria is no guarantee of being considered for selection.

16.3. For national or international inter-club competitions, any member of a qualifying club is eligible to play regardless of nationality, parentage, residence or registration.
[END]

Does this seem OK - any further thoughts?

Cheers
Walter

The CS grader and arbiters running FIDE rated events in Scotland are the only people currently with access to the FIDE database to add new players with a SCO code. As Alastair White has already indicated there will be an agreed "operating procedure" which will indicate exactly what are the requirements before anyone can be listed with a SCO code.

However there may be a possible confusion with regard to the Summary of Changes document. <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.chessscotland.com/Files/2015/SummaryofChanges.pdf">http://www.chessscotland.com/Files/2015 ... hanges.pdf</a><!-- m -->

"Please also note that eligibility to be registered as SCO is the same as the eligibility for the title of Scottish Champion."

Since CS membership is compulsory under 16.1 on the eligibility to be Scottish Champion then the note in the summary of changes can't be what was intended. If that is what is intended then it would only be possible to FIDE rate events where compulsory CS membership was a requirement. Participants in the FIDE rated events of SNCL, Rich/Spens, Edinburgh Congress are often not CS members - new players without a FIDE pnum have to be added with a SCO code before the event can be submitted for FIDE rating. Currently we do not check membership status before adding the SCO code.


16. Eligibility
16.1. To be eligible to compete for any Scottish individual national championship title
(including open to all, gender or age-related championship tournaments) a person must be a
member of Chess Scotland...

If a single-tier system is desired then just combine the two sections:

16. Eligibility
16.1 To be eligible to compete for any Scottish individual national championship etc. and to be eligible for representing Scotland at any international competition, a person must be:
16.1.1 a member of Chess Scotland
16.1.2 currently registered as Scottish (SCO) with the World Chess Federation (FIDE)
16.1.3 able to satisfy any other criteria etc.

You can then have the eligibility to become registered as SCO in 16.2 or just leave it for the OP.

Hi Dougie you say

“Participants in the FIDE rated events of SNCL, Rich/Spens, Edinburgh Congress are often not CS members - new players without a FIDE pnum have to be added with a SCO code before the event can be submitted for FIDE rating. Currently we do not check membership status before adding the SCO code.”

It’s not just the ‘Summary of Changes’, but the Constitution text also says that the SCO code is enough for eligibility for championship purposes and for international selection.

When the SCO code is added as you describe for grading purposes, does that mean the same thing as having a ‘SCO’ registration with FIDE? If so doesn’t that mean there’s a problem?

I may have got this bit wrong (or maybe it was an administrative glitch that was meant to be tidied up) - but in any case, perhaps you or someone in the CWP could clarify the implications of what you are saying about the SCO code for the constitutional proposals in section 16!?

Cheers
Walter

Sorry Guys,

I'm taking today off and getting reacquainted with some real ale!
Will come back tomorrow (sometime).

Cheers!!
Jim

Jim, which pub are you in?
:ymdevil: