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+--- Thread: Tromso Olympiad 2014 (/thread-838.html)
Re: Tromso Olympiad 2014 - andyburnett - 31-03-2014
George Neave Wrote:Andy Howie Wrote:Andy (B). Maybe I am being naive here but what is the personal benefit? Taking 2 weeks off work to go abroad for nothing, likely to be out of pocket (I always am when I have to go abroad for a meeting), loads of admin to do, sorting out the team for each day, making sure they are all there to avoid the zero default time etc etc...
I think I am over for 5 days, and I am in wall to wall meetings for 4 of them, the 5th day is travelling back. I don't get what the personal benefit is?
Andy - that really is quite a ridiculous statement - sorry. There is a large number of very keen chess players in Scotland who would absolutely love the chance to attend and be a part of a Chess Olympiad in whatever capacity. Honestly if you do not see that then you really are completely missing the point.
Sorry Andy H. George said it for me
You have been privy to all (or most) of the discussions/emails etc. Do you really believe Andy Muir's actions are in the best interests of the Scottish Olympiad campaign?
Just to be perfectly clear, I am not here to 'bash Andy Muir' - I may have had misgivings about many of his decisions in the past, but regarding the Olympiad issue I have also been contacted by several people who are extremely unhappy about things and how they have been and are being handled. This 'handling' also includes CS officials I should say.
The issue will not go away, as evidenced by the number of different posters on here (not just me), so it might be an idea for the CS council to convene an emergency meeting (or whatever the technical term is) to discuss this properly and fully. (If there was a discussion at the March 16th council meeting I can only assume it was a private one between a few of the directors?)
Re: Tromso Olympiad 2014 - Andy Howie - 31-03-2014
What I believe is neither here nor there. Andy was elected by the Chess Scotland members and as part of his remit, he makes these decisions. Constitutionally he has done nothing wrong. He is following the Rules we have at the moment. Rules that probably need to be looked at and changed to make the process transparent. The fact that the flights have been booked for practically everyone now makes it all the harder to change.
Re: Tromso Olympiad 2014 - Patrick McGovern - 31-03-2014
Andy Howie Wrote:Patrick McGovern Wrote:by commenting Hugh cannot moderate this thread should there be a need to do so
Of course he can if it gets out of hand. No danger of that to be honest. We are having a good honest discussion here.
Moderators are allowed an opinion!
how can there be an unbiased moderation given Hugh has expressed an opinion that comes firmly down on one side?
Re: Tromso Olympiad 2014 - Patrick McGovern - 31-03-2014
Andy Howie Wrote:What I believe is neither here nor there. Andy was elected by the Chess Scotland members and as part of his remit, he makes these decisions. Constitutionally he has done nothing wrong. He is following the Rules we have at the moment. Rules that probably need to be looked at and changed to make the process transparent. The fact that the flights have been booked for practically everyone now makes it all the harder to change.
Finally something we completely agree on. Whether we agree or not with Andy Muir he has a job to do, to state as fact that he is doing is for personal gain is out of order. I agree with much of what Andy Burnett says but not in this case. In the mean time let them get on with it and any comments or desired changes can be reserved for the AGM.
And yes Andy B it does look like you you are "bashing" Andy M.
Re: Tromso Olympiad 2014 - George Neave - 31-03-2014
Andy Howie Wrote:George, it is a perfectly fair question. It has been suggested that Andy M is doing this for personal benefit. Hard work and a lot of hassle are not personal benefit. Unless you have been a Captain, a Head of Delegation or ever acted as the FIDE / ECU delegate, you don't really grasp the work involved.
The one thing that is clear is we need to look at how the Captains and Heads of Delegation are selected. In the past it has been the ID and the IJD. Going by the depth of feeling on this thread this looks like something we may have to look at at the AGM.
I know that Andy M has put forward some ideas for that.
That's fair. I don't doubt it's lot of work actually - a labour of love hopefully. I take back "ridiculous" but stand by that it is a privilege and something where many would relish the opportunity despite the hard work. However it's done CS membership do have right to expect transparency.
Re: Tromso Olympiad 2014 - Andy Howie - 31-03-2014
George,
I think we both can agree with that!
Pat, I must be on the wrong side of the argument if we are agreeing :-s
Re: Tromso Olympiad 2014 - David Deary - 31-03-2014
andyburnett Wrote:The issue will not go away, as evidenced by the number of different posters on here (not just me), so it might be an idea for the CS council to convene an emergency meeting (or whatever the technical term is) to discuss this properly and fully. (If there was a discussion at the March 16th council meeting I can only assume it was a private one between a few of the directors?)
Andy,
The vast majority of the membership couldn't get worked up about this issue. I haven't seen a groundswell of opinion on this. I haven't even seen a single open team member complain publicly (I haven't been privy to the private shinnanigans) and if its that big an issue for team members I would have expected something on here. Also, I'm quite sure when I play my league match tonight that I'll be the only one who knows anything about it from twelve players.
I think the whole process needs looked at both in terms of selection of players, selection of captains and our strategy for international chess (junior and adult) going forward.
In terms of Tromso I think Matt's proposed solution is the only one that could be implemented now anyways. If you want change then I suggest you get behind it and then perhaps it will get some traction. Longer term I would encourage you to run for International Director at the next AGM, I think you'd make a good one. You've now got one vote!
In terms of the Council meeting on the 16th, there was a discussion around the International Budget as part of the discussion around budgets and fees. I cannot recall any specific discussion of Andy M's qualities as captain but I'm not sure that would have been the correct forum for it anyway. The team members and captains were probably mentioned but I honestly cannot remember for sure. I'm present at too many chess meetings as it is and they all start merging into one... :-o
Re: Tromso Olympiad 2014 - Andy Howie - 31-03-2014
David Deary Wrote:In terms of the Council meeting on the 16th, there was a discussion around the International Budget as part of the discussion around budgets and fees. I cannot recall any specific discussion of Andy M's qualities as captain but I'm not sure that would have been the correct forum for it anyway. The team members and captains were probably mentioned but I honestly cannot remember for sure. I'm present at too many chess meetings as it is and they all start merging into one... :-o
I am the same as you but I am working in the background to check with the others in case I missed something.
Re: Tromso Olympiad 2014 - robin moore - 31-03-2014
David Deary replying to Andy Burnett...
Quote:Longer term I would encourage you to run for International Director at the next AGM, I think you'd make a good one. You've now got one vote!
Make that two votes.
Re: Tromso Olympiad 2014 - John Shaw - 31-03-2014
amuir Wrote:I booked flights after discussing with John Shaw over the phone who agreed that I should go since there was no other manoeuvre for him.
That is simply untrue. I have never agreed Andy should go and still do not.
Our phone conversation ended in the following way (this is close to word-for-word):
John: "It is clear we will never agree."
Andy: "Yes. I may be out of line here, but I am going to make myself captain and book my flights."
John: "I see, goodbye."
Andy: "Bye."
At the time Andy appointed himself captain, 3 out of 4 Open players were opposed.