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+--- Thread: Tromso Olympiad 2014 (/thread-838.html)
Re: Tromso Olympiad 2014 - George Pyrich - 30-03-2014
It's a pity there's only 5 places in the squad not 6 as there used to be. I could have then asked Andy how I needed to bung him to get the last spot!
An enormous amount I hear you say!
Re: Tromso Olympiad 2014 - D-Oswald - 30-03-2014
Hugh Brechin Wrote:Sorry for being a little late to this thread. I don't really want to stir things up again, but I feel that important issues remain unresolved here.
For a man who was only narrowly elected, at the second time of asking, to fill a position for which there was no other candidate, Andy Muir seems to have acted with more than a measure of arrogance in effectively imposing himself upon the team. Though I'm sure everyone involved will do their best for Scotland regardless of the circumstances, it seems extremely unlikely that the optimal climate for a strong team performance can be achieved if multiple members of the squad are unhappy with a captain who has unilaterally decided to go.
The event is still a fair time away, and a number of alternative ideas (some probably more serious than others, but I can count at least a few possibilities) have been proposed on this thread (in addition, possibly, to any more in the private correspondence regarding the matter which appears to have taken place.) I don't really have any strong views on which would be the best (I can see points to several ideas), but at the very least they should be considered carefully. I think it would be very unwise of Andy to insist on his preferred course of action without recourse to further consultation. Previous selections of Olympiad captains (to my knowledge) have not been contentious. This one is. Citing precedents is no answer.
I really don't think it's appropriate to ignore the concerns of some of our strongest players and allow this decision to be solely made by someone with such a clear conflict of interest. Perhaps some kind of one-off panel (which could for instance be comprised of a couple of CS directors and a couple of strong non-selected players) could review the appointment. Or Andy could recognise that this situation is deeply unhelpful and withdraw himself from consideration, but I don't think any of us are holding our breaths on that one.
(Also, given the circumstances, Andy's stated decision to avoid the noticeboard for the next month or so is redolent not so much of high-minded restraint than of someone sticking their fingers in their ears and humming loudly in an effort to avoid hearing something they don't want to.)
Totally agree with this post. I guess other CS Directors need to step in here... this decision cannot be made by someone with such a clear conflict of interests.
Re: Tromso Olympiad 2014 - robin moore - 30-03-2014
Folks,
This is a clearly an issue that many CS members have strong feelings about. I don't know exact details but it would perhaps be fair to express my personal view from an ordinary CS member.
Andy Muir stood and was selected by CS members for the International Director role. That alone suggests that he deserves our support.
As far as I can make out, he has contributed with the panel to select the teams as quickly as possible in order to save CS money in flight costs. CS are struggling financially and that approach should be appreciated.
Andy may have overstepped the mark in selecting himself (apparently) to be Open team captain without the support of the selected players. I feel that was a serious mistake.
If, it is felt by members, selected CS directors need to assess and reconsider this situation, then all CS members must accept the outcome and that's the end of it.
Re: Tromso Olympiad 2014 - amuir - 30-03-2014
Hi,
I would like to go off the noticeboard for a month but since a moderator has posted, here is what I sent to the team yesterday :
"Hi
Some final thoughts on the captaincy:
The ID has selected the captain for at least 15 years if not more since he is in charge of the budget.
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://chessscotland.com/csinfo/turinolympiad.htm">http://chessscotland.com/csinfo/turinolympiad.htm</a><!-- m -->
In 2006 Jacob Aagaard said: "The International Director has not had a say in the selection process, except for that of the coaches, which has been the decision of the International Director alone. "
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://chessscotland.com/archives/olympiad2002.htm">http://chessscotland.com/archives/olympiad2002.htm</a><!-- m -->
2002 : Captain: Alan Minnican , Alan is the International Director of Chess Scotland and has acting as an enthusiastic team captain at the Istanbul Olympiad, Lyon Euro Champs and now the Bled Olympiad.
The only time the Open team has finished above seeding since 1990 was 2000 when Alan Minnican was ID and captain.
In future I want the captain to be a CS member decided by the selectors not the ID. I shall not be standing for captain in 2016.
This is what I will be saying if I meet people at congresses or if there is a polite discussion on the noticeboard when I return to it in May.
It is time to move on from this topic as I want to have good relations with all the squad and think how we can do well in Tromso.
Andy"
Re: Tromso Olympiad 2014 - robin moore - 30-03-2014
Andy,
The moderator made it clear he was posting his personal opinions.
Re: Tromso Olympiad 2014 - andyburnett - 30-03-2014
amuir Wrote:Hi,
I would like to go off the noticeboard for a month but since a moderator has posted, here is what I sent to the team yesterday :
"Hi
Some final thoughts on the captaincy:
The ID has selected the captain for at least 15 years if not more since he is in charge of the budget.
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://chessscotland.com/csinfo/turinolympiad.htm">http://chessscotland.com/csinfo/turinolympiad.htm</a><!-- m -->
In 2006 Jacob Aagaard said: "The International Director has not had a say in the selection process, except for that of the coaches, which has been the decision of the International Director alone. "
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://chessscotland.com/archives/olympiad2002.htm">http://chessscotland.com/archives/olympiad2002.htm</a><!-- m -->
2002 : Captain: Alan Minnican , Alan is the International Director of Chess Scotland and has acting as an enthusiastic team captain at the Istanbul Olympiad, Lyon Euro Champs and now the Bled Olympiad.
The only time the Open team has finished above seeding since 1990 was 2000 when Alan Minnican was ID and captain.
In future I want the captain to be a CS member decided by the selectors not the ID. I shall not be standing for captain in 2016.
This is what I will be saying if I meet people at congresses or if there is a polite discussion on the noticeboard when I return to it in May.
It is time to move on from this topic as I want to have good relations with all the squad and think how we can do well in Tromso.
Andy"
Andy M,
I don't understand why you couldn't answer the most basic of questions over the last week or so? Did you choose yourself as captain? The answer is, it appears, yes. Not damning in itself (though not a good idea).
The problem arises when your team/squad is almost entirely (perhaps fully?) unhappy with this decision (unlike Alan Minnican's captaincies) and makes this clear to you in no uncertain terms - this makes it an issue which needs to be dealt with.
To then go ahead and book your flights while such unhappiness is being made clear to you is completely wrong, and here it becomes a major issue extending to the wider CS membership - those who are funding the teams and would expect our (admittedly voluntary) directors to act in an ethical and openly honest manner.
The worst thing here, however, is that Andy Muir - in the face of honest criticism, a clearly unhappy team and a worsening situation - has not once offered to reconsider his (unilateral) decision to be captain.
To end, it is not 'time to move on from this issue' - it is time for it to be dealt with at a higher level, something Andy M. himself ought to have pushed for when it became clear he wasn't supported by his team.
Re: Tromso Olympiad 2014 - amuir - 30-03-2014
Andy B,
I chose myself AFTER GETTING APPROVAL FROM Douglas Bryson, David Congalton and Roddy McKay, not
unilaterally.
The only other options at the time were Nikos Ntirlis and Jonathan Grant.
I rejected Nikos since he is not Scottish, not a CS member and is 400 points lower graded then me.
I rejected Jonathan since he is not certain of going, he still has not booked his flights.
The team are not happy because of any misdemeanours of mine. It is just that the Quality Chess employees have a working relationship with him and he can help with openings more than me.
I booked flights after discussing with John Shaw over the phone who agreed that I should go since there was no other manoeuvre for him.
Re: Tromso Olympiad 2014 - David Deary - 30-03-2014
There is an interesting potential conflict of interest which seems to be ignored or unnoticed. 3 members of the team work for the same company. 2 (until recently - it's 1 now) of these same members were selectors. These same members pushed for a 4th guy who has worked for this same company as Captain. The whole process needs looked at including this potential conflict, I'm not suggesting any impropriety but it looks like a bit of a closed shop from the outside. I would be very interested in Roddy & Alan's views on Andy as Captain.
Edit - Just realised Andy M posted before me.
Re: Tromso Olympiad 2014 - robin moore - 30-03-2014
The selection panel as of December 2013 ....
Adult selectors - IM Andrew Muir, GM Colin McNab, IM Douglas Bryson. (Update Dec 2013)
Dougie, I feel, has made it abundantly clear that he did not wish to be be considered for selection and John Shaw had previously correctly resigned from the selection committee as he did not wish a conflict of interests to occur.
Re: Tromso Olympiad 2014 - David Deary - 30-03-2014
Robin,
The two selectors (now one) I referred to were John and Colin. Unless Dougie works for QC as well but I'm pretty sure he doesn't.