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Freedom of Speech - Printable Version

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Freedom of Speech - George Thomson - 14-02-2013

It would appear that the Cameronian philosophy of crushing the little guy and suppression of free speech has permeated deeper into our society than you may have imagined. The following was removed from the Cumbernauld Chess Club noticeboard because it was deemed to "reflect badly on the club."

" Last season in Glasgow Division Two, I never lost a game. Therefore I believe that I have earned the right to play in our Division one matches. So being left aside in order to play Dunfermline players is Grossly unfair in my opinion. I appreciate that they helped us out of a hole in the past, but that is not my problem."

Dunfermline players very Kindly offered to play for us when Hamilton refused us the opportunity to reschedule a Division One Match.

" These players did NOT earn Promotion I DID. What is the point of working hard to earn promotion when someone else is going to reap the benefit??? And to add Insult to Injury, I'm to "stand by" as Reserve......
Er No Thank You !!!"


The reason that I'm posting this on here is that I object very strongly to my thoughts being suppressed from our noticeboard especially on the grounds that it reflects badly on the club.

I believe that having people slogging it out in Division two year after year, spending a fortune on petrol ferrying people around then earning promotion only to be replaced by players from another club who very conveniently become Cumbernauld players, reflect more badly on the club than my murmurs of discontent.

Admittedly I'm playing pretty crap at the moment , but still do not feel that my poor form justifies replacement with other players from another club in a desperate attempt to stay in Glasgow Division One.

Dunfermline players, please do not withdraw as a result of this posting as I would not now play anyway.
I just can not abide people telling me what I can and cannot think or feel. If I wanted THOUGHT SUPPRESSION I would swallow a few LARGATIL.


Re: Freedom of Speech - George Thomson - 14-02-2013

Oops that should read LARGACTOL.


Re: Freedom of Speech - George Thomson - 14-02-2013

Why has the "edit" facility disappeared?


Re: Freedom of Speech - Geoff Chandler - 14-02-2013

Hi George.

I agree players who taken a team up should be allowed their reward.
And it's unfair on players in cup competitions to be dropped if they reach a final
to make room for big guns from other clubs.

However I don't know the full story and speaking from experience it may have
been a decision meant with good intentions.

Let me explain.

In 1993 I formed Sandy Bells from a load of punters who drank in Bells.
On board 6 was a talented lad called Brian Duncan.
We won Div 4 and another team Bells II was formed. I strengthened Bells I
by one player and said Brian could go into the new team back in Div 4 and play on board 1.
He will get much better games and progress much more than playing board 6 in Div 3.

It was what happened to me.
Around about 1977/78 I was pencilled in to play board 6 for Edin I. I was chuiffed to tea breaks.
They felt it would be a waste so booted me down to Div II to play board 1 for Edin 4.
The same logic as above was explained to me and I accepted it.

Perhaps I am no good at explaining logic because Brian did not like my decision at all.
(also his girlfriend now played in the new team and I thought I was doing a good thing.)

So there may have been good intent on your club's part.
As I said we don't know the whole story. Usually when the whole story comes out
over chess matters you will find both parties acted in the interest of the other but
both sides have misunderstood each other.

I agree they should not have removed the post but explained their decision.

Footnote:
So I played board 1 for Edin 4. We won promotion. I got better. So good infact that
next season Edin I v Edin 4 in Div one I beat the Edinburgh I captain Raymond Baxter.
I had no axe to grind but it's just funny how things turn out.
(Raymond slaughtered me in our Club Championship game a few weeks later. I was not that good.)


Re: Freedom of Speech - andyburnett - 14-02-2013

It sometimes does that with my posts too George - not sure if it's a gremlin in the system or me being thick?!

Regarding your 'problem'; did you try to resolve it with the team captain/committee first? I quite often post things in the heat of the moment, when trying to resolve it in an 'official' way is more likely to work.

If your post did reflect badly on the club, then I think it should be removed so long as the club committee agreed to take the matter under consideration (as your point is a valid one and needs to be discussed). That being said, forums have moderators and rules, and as we have seen here it's not always possible to please everyone all of the time!

I've never been in your position regarding being replaced by others to help keep a team up or whatever, but I have been on the other side of the argument - being brought in (legitimately, as a member) to replace 'weaker' players when it was deemed 'necessary'.

I always made my position clear, though, that I would not play if the person I was replacing felt hard done by or objected to it.

P.S. I always thought it was Largactyl - there was a song named after it by an old crusty punk/metal
band <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4xXhBs1Ho18">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4xXhBs1Ho18</a><!-- m --> It definitely won't be everyone's cup of tea though Tongue


Re: Freedom of Speech - George Thomson - 14-02-2013

Thanks Guys. Andrew sounds Crass, oops I mean it sounds like Crass, a band whom I used to love in 1978/79.
I just object to players who earned the promotion being S*** on in favour of players who belong to another Club. All in an effort to Remain in this division. If a club go up and can not cut it then they go back down, this is the way it goes. I had no objection in principal to Two new players being brought into the squad as we progressed from a six board situation into an eight board situation.
My real objection was not being allowed to share my frustrations on our club CUMBERNAULD CHESS CLUB forum with out them being removed.
Andrew my first spelling was by someone who is on it and the second was by their psychiatric nurse, if they do not know then I have no chance.


Re: Freedom of Speech - ronniewallace - 15-02-2013

Oh dear, this is all rather unfortunate and imho should be an internal matter for our club
rather than discussed on a national chess forum. I considered asking for this thread to
be deleted but felt that may just exacerbate matters and given people have already commented
would put the moderators of this site in an awkward position.

Please find below the interaction I have had with George over this particular
incident which I hope will provide readers some context.

This is the post from George on our club noticeboard that I removed.
Quote:Last Season in Glasgow Division Two, I NEVER LOST a game. Therefore I
believe that I have earned the right to play in our Division One Matches.
So being left aside in order to play Dunfermline players is GROSSLY
unfair in my humble opinion.
I appreciate that they helped us out of a hole in the past, but that
is not my problem. These players did NOT earn Promotion I DID.
What is the point of working hard to earn promotion when someone else
is going to reap the Benefit???

And to add Insult to Injury, I'm to " stand By " as Reserve...... Er
No Thank You!!!

I then sent him the following e-mail carbon copying in our GCL captain.
Quote:Dear George,

Please do not post stuff like this on our "PUBLIC" noticeboard as it
reflects badly on the club. If you have a problem with team selection you should
take it up directly with the particular team captain.

Kind Regards,
Ronnie

George replies to my post as detailed below
Quote:Fascist
and yes he did indeed use the enlarged red text in the e-mail.

I reply as follows
Quote:I must say this is a very interesting choice of play ground bully name calling from
someone who has had this
<!-- l --><a class="postlink-local" href="http://www.chessscotland.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=515&p=5019&hilit=have+in+common#p5023">viewtopic.php?f=4&t=515&p=5019&hilit=have+in+common#p5023</a><!-- l -->
particular article attributed to them.

Regards,
Ronnie

George's reply
Quote:That was a Joke Ronnie, the Fascist comment was written in anger as I felt that you should not have removed my post. After all I'm surely entitled to my opinion regardless of how this is perceived by others.
For the record,I do not think that you are a fascist and shall even go as far as to offer my apologies for writing it.

and my final reply to him
Quote:Hi George,

I have to take action as forum moderator if I perceive
an opinion expressed on the website to be detrimental to the club.
It's a judgement call on my part and I obviously understand
that not everyone at times will agree with my actions.

You are perfectly entitled to disagree with me but the name
calling was unjustified. However, you have been big enough
to subsequently apologise so the matter is now in the
past as far as I am concerned.

cheers,
Ronnie

Since sending the above e-mail George's post here has subsequently been brought to my attention.

For the record the players from Dunfermline that George objects to became members of our club after
they came to our aid in a GCL match with Hamilton which we almost had to default due to the lack of
availability of players and no alternative rearrangement dates being available. I believe it is not unusual
for players to play for second clubs where they participate in different leagues.


Re: Freedom of Speech - David Deary - 15-02-2013

ronniewallace Wrote:Dear George,

Please do not post stuff like this on our "PUBLIC" noticeboard as it
reflects badly on the club. If you have a problem with team selection you should
take it up directly with the particular team captain.

Ronnie, do you not have a private forum? Surely, simply making the topic private to Cumbernauld members would have made more sense? Personally, I think it’s an important issue and one that should be discussed within your club. If it had been my post that was deleted and I was told to speak to a team Captain I would have reacted in a similar way to George.

I personally play league chess for the social aspect. I play in a team with friends - two members I went to school with (have known for at least ten years and played alongside them for that period), my younger brother is another and two good personal friends are on the remaining boards. I play in that team because I get on well with everyone and we have a good laugh. I would not replace these players for some 2200s because it wouldn't be as much fun. My SNCL team is the exact same. Chess is supposed to be fun and it’s not all about winning.

I'm not saying that’s why Cumbernauld have brought in Dunfermline players to simply to attain a competitive advantage it sounds like they have a genuine player shortage. However, these things need to be handled delicately. Fundamentally, I don't think its fair to permanently replace players who won promotion with a whole new team.


Re: Freedom of Speech - George Thomson - 15-02-2013

Ronnie, whether or not the players "become" members is not the issue. Even if new members join the club the team which earned promotion aught to receive their reward.
I and some of my fellow Cumbernauld Chess Club players INVESTED a lot of time, effort and money in order to EARN promotion. We should be playing in the Division one matches.
I raised this issue way back at the AGM and was told more or less, the Team captain does what he likes, he picks the team. I disagreed then and I disagree now and should have the right to do so even if it is in public. we are real people discussing real issues why should it have to be private, I have nothing to hide, and am not embarrassed for having this opinion.


Re: Freedom of Speech - George Thomson - 15-02-2013

The edit button has disappeared again.
Ronnie your attempt to make me look bad for posting a JOKE about asylum seekers is rather comical.
I'm sure that 90% of the people who read this post would having taken it as perhaps a poor taste satirical quip.
The others would perhaps see me as A FASCIST or an Adolf Hitler type figure. This is the danger of trying to have a bit of fun. Some people see it as fun some do not.