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Re: 2012 Olympiad - George Neave - 10-09-2012
Like Andy B I also noticed how we generally lost out in the long game which fits my pet theory that our strongest players do not get enough practice against 2400/2500+ opposition. Alex has done great job in recent years attracting quality opposition to the Scottish but beyond that anyone looking to better there chess at top end of range has no choice but to look overseas. A few less stars barred, possibly fewer juniors travelling to overseas junior events i.e don't send them if the grading doesn't justify it. Invest energy in more events in Scotland attracting titled players. The recent Scottish Blitz shows that it can be done.
Re: 2012 Olympiad - robin moore - 10-09-2012
I don't want to deflect from the topic of the adult olympiad but am convinced that in the junior equivalent we have a problem. That problem is the 30-second Fischer time control. We rarely play this system at all at home yet within other countries it is a standard. Now, some of our juniors might have been tired but we were struggling badly game after game when it came down to this format. Our opponents were used to this system, to us it is alien apart from the top world/european events. Our normal weekend congresses don't allow for this system to operate, how can we deal with this problem? There is no doubt about it, to use a poker term, you need to be able to change gear when you are closing in at the finish.
Robin.
Re: 2012 Olympiad - Alan Tate - 11-09-2012
Re Andy B and George's point about being out-grinded: I'm not sure why but it seems like the higher rated player can usually last longer and have more 'staying power'. At the end of the day though it comes down to nerves/experience when you are on 30 secs per move?
robin moore Wrote:I don't want to deflect from the topic of the adult olympiad but am convinced that in the junior equivalent we have a problem. That problem is the 30-second Fischer time control. We rarely play this system at all at home yet within other countries it is a standard. Now, some of our juniors might have been tired but we were struggling badly game after game when it came down to this format. Our opponents were used to this system, to us it is alien apart from the top world/european events. Our normal weekend congresses don't allow for this system to operate, how can we deal with this problem? There is no doubt about it, to use a poker term, you need to be able to change gear when you are closing in at the finish.
Robin.
Simple. Change the format in junior tournaments to one with increment! Maybe some daring congress organiser might try it out as well.
And yes I still think that adult chess is somewhat neglected compared to junior chess....
Re: 2012 Olympiad - HLang - 11-09-2012
andyburnett Wrote:@Heather, unlucky : ( but well done anyway overallI would like to know what the preparation was for the critical game though?
I realised that my usual repertoire vs her usual repertoire would lead to a fairly turgid position where it would be difficult to play for a win. Sarunas suggested a setup that would lead to an unbalanced position and after he'd shown me some games I decided to play it. As it was new to me (where "it" = move 1 and beyond), I spent the day before the game looking at the middlegames that would result from white's best responses. It worked, in that she didn't play any of the most challenging setups, and by move 6 I'd already equalised. So the opening was a complete success - it was only later on that I started missing things.
Re: 2012 Olympiad - Linda McCusker - 11-09-2012
George Neave Wrote:possibly fewer juniors travelling to overseas junior events i.e don't send them if the grading doesn't justify it
Seeing as CS does not directly fund juniors going overseas, ie the juniors travel and accomodation costs are covered either by the organising tournament or by parents, why would this allow more investment in adult chess? :\
Sorry I don't want to hijack this thread but this point seems to come up regulary.
Re: 2012 Olympiad - Phil Thomas - 11-09-2012
Alan Tate Wrote:Simple. Change the format in junior tournaments to one with increment! Maybe some daring congress organiser might try it out as well.
.
The Primary Individual this year used 5 second increments - additional to 25 minutes on clock at start of the game. This modification worked very well ....... won games tended to stay won and the last games to finish were more entertaining than traditional time scrambles which end in flag fall. Setting increment to only 5 seconds per move resulted in no more than minor disruption to the tournament schedule.
Re: 2012 Olympiad - Derek Howie - 11-09-2012
Alan Tate Wrote:Simple. Change the format in junior tournaments to one with increment! Maybe some daring congress organiser might try it out as well.
Not sure that the junior tournament idea would work because:
- junior events are effectively allegros, so is not the same as 2 hour plus games. I know Phil mentions the Primary Individual but it was still looked upon by many as an allegro, despite the way that it was graded.
- it's difficult enough to get kids that play junior tournaments to take their time
- the junior squad generally don't play in junior events
It would certainly be interesting to see a congress try it but it may not be practical with the 2 games a day scenario, but hopefully someone can overcome that potential problem.
Alan Tate Wrote:And yes I still think that adult chess is somewhat neglected compared to junior chess....In what respect? Neglected by who?
Re: 2012 Olympiad - robin moore - 11-09-2012
First of all, perhaps this increment discussion could be moved to another independent thread so as not to disrupt the main Olympiad topic. Andy?
I wish to give an example of what can happen with the 30 second increment...
At the U16 Olympiad a top Russian and Iranian guy were fighting out a very tricky finish where both had chances. The game lasted approx 40 minutes after all others were finished. I watched this game and marvelled at how they seemed able to churn out good moves seemingly continuously until I believe the game was eventually agreed drawn. I am a 1700 player and would have floundered hopelessly in this level of battle. This now leads to the question...Are stronger players much more comfortable with this increment method than weaker players? The answer I feel must surely be yes. I would like a tournament organiser to take a bold step and introduce a 30 second increment in the lowest section to see what effect it had. I strongly suspect it wouldn't affect the total playing time too much and could certainly lead to many exciting finishes.
Robin.
Re: 2012 Olympiad - David Deary - 11-09-2012
Linda McCusker Wrote:Seeing as CS does not directly fund juniors going overseas, ie the juniors travel and accomodation costs are covered either by the organising tournament or by parents, why would this allow more investment in adult chess? :\
Glad you made this point as its exactly what I was thinking. I wish people would get their facts in order instead of allowing an over stated sense of entitlement to come to the fore.
At any rate, back to the Olympiad: I'm sure everyone gave their all for Scotland in every game and I have a great deal of respect for all of them. In terms of improving performances in the future - I think that Alan's suggestions are certainly worth considering for future events. Afterall, he was there!
Re: 2012 Olympiad - Clement Sreeves - 11-09-2012
Most congresses have a time control of 90 minutes for 36 moves, then 30 minutes quickplay. Replacing the 30 minute quickplay by a 30 second increment would mean games could last 96 moves without taking longer than they do at the moment. It is very rare that games last longer than 96 moves.
I guess the simplest way would be to make it 72 minutes for the whole game with a 30 second increment from move 1 which is effectively the same.