Forums

Full Version: Grandparents rule
You're currently viewing a stripped down version of our content. View the full version with proper formatting.
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8
I fail to see what the problem is Robin?!

A simple rule stating that anyone who has fulfilled the eligibility criteria to represent Scotland as a junior can - on reaching senior level - opt to retain Scottish status/eligibility, would suffice.

Should they, at that time, decide to opt for their country of birth instead, they then revert to the same status as anyone else.

Have I missed something here?
Andy,

The problem is that in my hypothetical example my junior has not had permanent residency in Scotland for a year at any time of his national representation for Scotland. I know this is is a bit picky but I feel we have to open our eyes,ears and minds to the changing world we live in and give some flexibility and a degree of common sense and fairness and above all our support to the selectors that are making extremelely difficult decisions.

Robin.
Andy, No you haven't missed something. The current criteria is also clear on the following:

The fourth eligibility consideration is: • Has the player been previously accepted as qualifying for Scottish representation?

Robin's example is covered by this in my view.
There seems to be a concerted strategy of misinformation (intentional or not) on this thread from those supporting this proposal and its disappointing to say the least.
David,

I can assure you there is no concerted or organised effort of those opposed to your thoughts on this subject. Please don't mix up any junior regulations with adult regulations. Everyone comnnected with ChessScotland has a right to express their views,

Robin.
robin moore Wrote:David,

I can assure you there is no concerted or organised effort of those opposed to your thoughts on this subject. Please don't mix up any junior regulations with adult regulations. Everyone comnnected with ChessScotland has a right to express their views,

Robin.

Robin, you are entitled to your opinion but it is you who is confusing the issue.
Also, there was no suggestion that you could not express your opinion and I resent you implying I did.

On several occassions you have posted or responded to comments about junior selection on this topic and this pertains to adult selection. Your comments are valid in relation to junior selection but I am beginning to think you are deliberately trying to muddy the waters here.
Robin

The motion for the SGM is
amuir Wrote:2. That eligibility requirements for Scottish representation be amended to bring it in line with most sports in the UK, such that “Were either or both of the player’s parents born in Scotland?” is changed to “Were any of the player’s parents or grandparents born in Scotland?”

so any migrants, from wherever, for whatever would not be affected by the carrying or denial of the grandparent motion, unless (of course) they have a Scottish Grandparent.

Selectors should have no flexibility whatsoever in deciding the criteria for eligibility for selection, only whether an eligible player is good enough.

The rules for selection for Scottish International selection chess teams already have a good degree of flexibility in them, which would allow the selection at adult level of a junior who has previously represented Scotland at International level.

"ELIGIBILITY FOR NATIONAL REPRESENTATION
Chess Scotland will apply the follow considerations in identifying individuals who could qualify as being eligible for representing Scotland in international chess events. In formulating these four considerations, due account has been taken of the relevant FIDE rules and the particular circumstances of defining Scottish nationality. Of course, anyone who qualifies under these considerations would then be subject to the selection processes whereby national teams are selected from the pool of eligible players.

It is not the purpose of this document to set out the various selection processes that are adopted from time to time for juniors and adult players.

There are four eligibility considerations as follows: -

• Was the player born in Scotland?

• Were either or both of the player’s parents born in Scotland?

• If the player is 18 or more years old, has he/she been permanently resident in Scotland for at least two years (if a junior, that is under 18, the equivalent time is one year)?

• Has the player been previously accepted as qualifying for Scottish representation?
A positive response to any one (or more) of the above four questions would mean that the player (a) would be eligible and their name could be considered in the context of selection processes and (b) could include their name as being a Scottish player on any international list such as FIDE."

I would suggest that in granting SCO status on the FIDE list to Matthew Turner, CS has helped him out and provided a resolution to the problem he had with the English Federation, whom he had previously represented and that Douglas Bryson's suggestion is a sensible compromise.

"Perhaps the halfway house of grandparent gets you on the FIDE list as SCO but you must choose to reside here before you can play is the way to go."

I would much rather be represented at International level by five players who fulfill the present qualifying criteria, no matter what their playing strength, than five non-national and non-resident Super GM's, armed with their family trees, who could possibly win the Olympiad.

I agree with David Deary's earlier point of incentives for those coming through our junior ranks and that applies to those striving to improve to International standard at the moment. Alan Tate, Calum McQueen and Clement Sreeves, to name but 3 of our homegrown talent, all have the potential to represent Scotland at International level in the future. I think it would be a slap in the face to the efforts they put in and the personal expense they have shelled out, if we suddenly opened the criteria to allow a GM from elsewhere to take up a limited and prized Scottish International Team place.

I too will vote against the motion in its present form but would support an amendment along the lines of that suggested by Douglas Bryson.
David Deary Wrote:Andy, No you haven't missed something. The current criteria is also clear on the following:

The fourth eligibility consideration is: • Has the player been previously accepted as qualifying for Scottish representation?

Robin's example is covered by this in my view.
There seems to be a concerted strategy of misinformation (intentional or not) on this thread from those supporting this proposal and its disappointing to say the least.

David are you suggesting that I am taking part in concerted strategy?
You say the nicest things.
Not true though. I write an an individual posing the odd question such as the following

Is there any chance of you answering the following question on this forum?

David,
will you also be submitting proxy votes on behalf of people who disagree with you?

If the answer is no there is a danger that you make the meeting less representative than it would have been.
I am ok with this now......

As long as it is clear that if a junior that has been selected to represent Scotland at any level, no matter when, how little or often, he is ok always to be selected as an adult for Scotland.

Robin.
Phil, I did say intentional or not.
You have said it is not a concerted strategy so I take your word on that.

I also have no issues taking proxies from those who support the proposal. I am happy to take them with me but would it not be odd for one person to have proxies for both sides of the argument? I also think I could be accused of bias or a conflict of interest which doesn't seem like best practice to me.

On this basis, it would probably be logical for someone else to take the proxy votes in favour of the proposal? How about you Phil? :\

I am also unsure whether it is neccessary to amend the proposal to Dougie's suggestion or to vote against the proposal. I am not even sure of the proxy process but I am endeavouring to find out.
I feel it would be proper for me to apologise to anyone I may have offended in any way on this thread. I am sure you will understand that all families need to be assured of my guaranteed 100% support both now and in the future. This is especially so for the families of economic migrants, many of whose talented children make up a fair part of the present Scotland junior squad.

Robin.
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8