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Let's take an extreme example- for some strange reason the highest U18 was rated 500. Would you still be happy to send them to these tournaments? Even though they will almost certainly score 0/9? Presumably not. If that is the case, then you agree with the idea of a rating floor in principle, and we are just haggling over price

Quote:Re: Appearance fees for our best players
by Andrew McHarg » Thu Dec 22, 2011 5:29 pm

Agreed Angus... which is pretty rare isn't it as we usually disagree? lol

Start of a statistical trend? =)

NP Clement,

I know you are just debating! So am I!

I do though care strongly about this. There is actually far more benefit long term for the whole of Chess and indeed the juniors themselves by getting them involved in these events early. I personally think they are fantastic events and it's when we have hundreds wanting to go to these events and vying for places that Chess will grow and thrive and coaching services will be requested from parents etc. We should spread the news about just how awesome these events are! I'm not just saying that I just love the buzz of all the juniors trying their hearts out and I've no doubt that the vast majority are learning and loving the experience.

Clement Sreeves Wrote:Let's take an extreme example- for some strange reason the highest U18 was rated 500. Would you still be happy to send them to these tournaments? Even though they will almost certainly score 0/9? Presumably not. If that is the case, then you agree with the idea of a rating floor in principle, and we are just haggling over price

Hehehehe... I see what you did there.

Euro Youth Italy 2009

Points scored: 61 (not including full point byes)
Points scored vs Italians: 25

Again very similar figures

Angus McDonald Wrote:One could highlight say Ian's performance. He scored 3.5 points out of 9 with 3.5 scored against players from Brazil and Argentina. Do you think Ian isn't good enough to go to these events?
With your approach Hamish wouldn't even have been there.

Did Ian not achieve a 2400+ performance just before the Worlds at Scarborough? That would give a good indication of the level of opponent he faced at the worlds. I think it was fair to say that when it came to selections Ian was an easy one.

I thought all the juniors performed well at the Worlds this year. There were no failures and some really really good results.

Clement Sreeves Wrote:Euro Youth Italy 2009

Points scored: 61 (not including full point byes)
Points scored vs Italians: 25

Again very similar figures

2 points, You can only play what is put in front of you and secondly, if about 1/4 - 1/3 of the field is local, would you not expect to see 1/4 - 1/3 of your points from there?

Andy,

Didn't really mean to speak about Ian but it was easier to mention him than others.
Think it was 2272 performance at Scarborough. He hasn't done a 2400+ performance yet.
His chess is in the doldrums at present which I'm putting down to 'Highers' year. Not worried about it as I know what he can do and I've also seen enough with many other players to know that the future for junior chess in Scotland is rosy. As for Mike! Jonny is a fantastic player 'cheer up' =) Andrew McCl and Shivan also.
Fantastic players!!
His selection wasn't that easy !! allthough he would have gone irrespective of which others at the age group wished to go even if it meant splitting benefit or free accomodation or paying the whole amount. As it happens I think it turned out fair in the end. Others played other tournaments or were given the chance to go to the Worlds. Also I think where there is little to choose between selections it's fair to choose both and split the benefit of the free accomodation place. Or select 1 for the Euros and 1 for the Worlds. If parents are prepared to send 2 strong players to both then I think that option should be open to them also provided they are significantly ahead of the 3rd choice. If there are 3 strong candidates then it would be good to split benefit of free accomodation 3 ways. It only seems fair to me to do it this way. Ian's had a lot of first choice selections but I personally wouldn't mind splitting that and involving others.
Have to agree with Robin about the under 12 girls i.e. These two (and there are other good ones in the age group) are very talented. They should both be given as many opportunities as possible. Create an atmosphere of encouragement. If parents are prepared to fund these events it's all good for Chess imho.
The more the merrier with Robin's proviso that they have to have enough support from coaches to make it happen. I do though think a lot of the older players are very able at prepping their own games. Hamish i.e. did all his own work and also found time to help others and still did a fantastic perfomance.
Find a way to utilise all the talents and the juniors will breakthrough. Again imho.

Quote:2 points, You can only play what is put in front of you and secondly, if about 1/4 - 1/3 of the field is local, would you not expect to see 1/4 - 1/3 of your points from there?

You should understand how a swiss draw works Andy! You influence the players that are put before you by the results achieved. If you play well and score well you float up and avoid the local filler players: this called bias in the data. Your assertion will only be true if there is an equal chance to play any of the local players - there is not. Your assertion can only be true if you float down in the draw and that is the point Clement was making.

The worlds is a really tough event as expected and just now Scotland are struggling to compete with the top players from many other countries. As Clement pointed out we win a good chunk of our points from filler players from the home nation or countries close to it (eg. Brazil and Argentina from the last one). I'm not trying to say our kids aren't talented or strong, because they are, and I'm not advocating not sending a squad there either. I as a few others on this thread are trying to make the point that there are maybe more appropriate tournaments for some players.
Robin and Paul have done excellent work recently matching up members of the Scotland squad to coaches such as myself, Andrew Green and Clement amongst others and we can use this to our advantage. Tournaments like the Czech open and (especially I'd have thought) the British seem like they can provide this advantage. I strongly believe that we need to send a coach to events such as the Worlds and Europeans to get the full benafit from them and if memory serves the next world junior is in South Africa(?). This requires a massive cost to send another body down there and I found coaching from back home very hard, having to do prep around lectures/work was pretty difficult. If we choose events where the squad can play equally strong games and our stronger players are more willing to go to then we can get an effective set up going where we have several coaches going along side. This seems like a solution that deserves at least a trial before we reject it outright. There is also maybe a possibility of tieing it in with family holiday eg Cesenatico was right on a beach in a very touristy resort which seemed pretty popular for tourists as well as chess players. We have limited resources and pulling them together in ways like this seems pretty logical to me at least.