+- Forums (https://www.chessscotland.com/forum)
+-- Forum: Members Only (https://www.chessscotland.com/forum/forum-16.html)
+--- Forum: General Chess Chat (https://www.chessscotland.com/forum/forum-3.html)
+--- Thread: Scottish National Online Chess League (SNOCL) (/thread-2062.html)
RE: Scottish National Online Chess League (SNOCL) - Ianbrownlee - 16-10-2020
thanks Alex i'll look into it.
I dont get why people think there is no screening. What ever platform is being used there is inbuilt screening I wish people would not put words in my mouth which is frustrating. I am only saying that there is no need to send it to Andy Howie as the games are probably not being graded by CS
RE: Scottish National Online Chess League (SNOCL) - Ianbrownlee - 16-10-2020
and the answers to my questions are Andy?
Anyway its obvious for team captains/ club organisers that inter club matches are much easier with Chess.com and it does automatically create pgns for club matches on any timescale so they can be sent for screening if required. As far as Lichess is concerned it seems to be on a game by game basis so sod that for a game of peevers. Lichess is okay for individual tournaments but not for team tournaments
Bottom line, if games are being sent to CS and I'm doing it then its chess.com by a country mile.
We then need to decide what happens to the PGN after its screened assuming it goes to CS.
Thanks guys for your sugesstions so far and over the weekend. I'll make decisions by the middle of next week and contact interested club captains. A couple of decisions already made include no Video cameras to be used and probably chess.com unless i'm persuaded otherwise
Ian
RE: Scottish National Online Chess League (SNOCL) - Adam Bremner - 16-10-2020
It depends what you are looking to organise - if you are to call it the Scottish National Online Chess league, there is an implication that it is a CS event for a Scottish Team title, in which case it has to be screened by CS (at a minimum), as you do not know the exact methods of the sites. If you are looking to organise a friendly team competition involving Scottish players, then it has nothing to do with CS and perhaps no need to screen it, as long as people are made aware that the only anti cheating measure is the unknown screening method of the platform - which will only provide limited comfort. Assuming it is easy enough to send for screening though, I can't see why anyone would object regardless.
I don't think anyone is worried about CS rating it or not, it is more the possibility of someone wasting several hours of someone else's time by playing unfairly. Either way I hope it goes ahead as there is clearly an appetite for it - go with whatever most people are looking for, as ultimately the more people it benefits the better.
RE: Scottish National Online Chess League (SNOCL) - Ianbrownlee - 16-10-2020
A lot of what you are saying is correct Adam and we're not too far apart. I've had it checked out and I cannot run a CS tournament unless mandated by the Mann Comm and/or council so it cannot be a CS event . I've had feedback regarding what happens after the PGN is screened so that has to be addressed hence why I am mentioning it. I'm trying to keep costs and admin down to a minimum. I ran several chess challenges between clubs over the summer using the available features on chess.com so thats sorted out OK. The PGN's are freely available on chess.com for matches played so that isnt an issue. Lichess concentrate on user and tournament downloads but not club tournaments.
\it's just what we want to do versus the admin required. Chess Scotland has, as Jim Webster has already indicated, and anti cheating policy and some of that at least will be written into the rules and I'll probably ask Jim Webster for assistance.
If I can get all of this sorted we are looking for the first two rounds at least in November
No has inidciated to me time controls apart ffrom the wide range i indicated earlier
Isn
RE: Scottish National Online Chess League (SNOCL) - Andy Howie - 16-10-2020
Ian,
The reason that people are using secondary screening is quite simple. If you have a player who has played 30 games then cheats intelligently for 3 games in a league, the platform is not going to pick it it.
RE: Scottish National Online Chess League (SNOCL) - Jim Webster - 16-10-2020
(16-10-2020, 09:41 PM)Adam Bremner Wrote: It depends what you are looking to organise - if you are to call it the Scottish National Online Chess league, there is an implication that it is a CS event for a Scottish Team title, in which case it has to be screened by CS (at a minimum), as you do not know the exact methods of the sites. If you are looking to organise a friendly team competition involving Scottish players, then it has nothing to do with CS and perhaps no need to screen it, as long as people are made aware that the only anti cheating measure is the unknown screening method of the platform - which will only provide limited comfort. Assuming it is easy enough to send for screening though, I can't see why anyone would object regardless.
I don't think anyone is worried about CS rating it or not, it is more the possibility of someone wasting several hours of someone else's time by playing unfairly. Either way I hope it goes ahead as there is clearly an appetite for it - go with whatever most people are looking for, as ultimately the more people it benefits the better.
I think I need to make is absolutely clear that this in NOT a formally organised Chess Scotland event.
Ian is organising this event as an individual, not as a CS official - and I give him full credit for taking this onboard.
If Ian wishes to make available of CS resources, such as screening, we will offer advice and support if needed.
Jim
RE: Scottish National Online Chess League (SNOCL) - Andy Howie - 17-10-2020
Totally agree Jim. The same goes for other leagues as well. We are here to assist where we can
RE: Scottish National Online Chess League (SNOCL) - Ianbrownlee - 17-10-2020
thanks for the support Andy and Jim , I now have a clearer idea of what can be done. What I dont know however is the following
a. time controls I havent a scooby here. Some people want 10 + 5 , others 20 + 5. I phoned John MacNicol for his advice and he suggested 45 + 5 . At the moment 10 + 5 is in the lead but not many people have answered this.
b. Do we play this at the weekend or during an evening, particularly if the time control is 10 + 5
c. entry fee I am thinking of £10-20 per team for a six or seven round event which goes straight to Chess Scotland.
d. Teams, do we allow teams from down south or elsewhere
What i do know will probably happen
a. The games will be played on chess.com as it has a club match facility unlike LiChess , making the admin and structure much easier, including collation of match PGN's
b. Rules will be set up (relying on my cs directors for help on this) with CS's anti cheating policies in place.
C. I will be Tournament Director and organiser. Maybe a small arbiter's committee will be set up to deal with disputes and issues. Arbiters will not be required to watch the games
d. Each team captain will have his or her part to play.
e. No Zoom, No Skype , no cameras , unless both parties specifically agree. As demonstrated recently unless you use two cameras front and back it wont work anyway
Comments please on all points. I have a zoom meeting with Tafca League on Monday and I would like a clear idea by then. I can also offer a Zoom meeting to demonstrate how I think it will work for any interested parties who would like to know more
RE: Scottish National Online Chess League (SNOCL) - Alan Tate - 18-10-2020
(16-10-2020, 02:02 PM)Ianbrownlee Wrote: Then i would be in possession of all the games. What do I do with them ?
Sell them to the Soviets.
RE: Scottish National Online Chess League (SNOCL) - StevieHilton - 20-10-2020
(16-10-2020, 02:08 PM)Ianbrownlee Wrote: and as for skype/Zoom etc this would c beenomplicate matters beyond usability. Stevie are you seriously telling me multiple cameras on Skype, Zoom etc is feasible etc. There is already anti cheating screening on every rated game on chess.com and LiChess.
Yes. We've been using this in skype tournaments for years and a number of people have been caught using engines. I can give you a French friends email address on how to do it. skype events are closer to 1 to 1 than online